Comments on: Monogamy, polygamy, and true marriage http://botstudent.net/2014/monogamy-polygamy-marriage Exploring life, spirituality, and contemporary cultural issues via "The Basket of Tolerance" and other guideposts Tue, 26 Aug 2014 17:49:25 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.9.2 By: Christina http://botstudent.net/2014/monogamy-polygamy-marriage#comment-38111 Wed, 09 Jul 2014 18:21:35 +0000 http://botstudent.net/?p=11204#comment-38111 Saw this & wanted to share, its interesting when going back to topics written in the past & I thinking to my self, what the heck! What was I thinking? That happens alot. I wouldn’t consider myself stupid at all, (of course, who would?). This mind changes perspectives quickly, most of the time it feels best not to say anything because what is the point, my mind will change about this and flip about and there will be no consistency. There never is. Im really strong headed & controlling as well, on one hand its a great trait that i have, as it allows me to power through situations really well until the job gets done, but the issue with that is this body simply was not made for it, my knees are giving out & i suffer from severe adrenal wipe out & other systems are not working as well as they should.

Being in a long term relationship is tricky because yes, you have to remain authentic to yourself & Its always changing learning to trust that and be flexible to the ever changing landscape is crucial. My partner adores me & it seems like my nature naturally changes to flow with his needs, and my needs seems to pre-empt his. So when i am being true to myself & authentic, this is very good. SOmetimes he gets pissed because he wants to create those waters, & within his freedom, his sense of individualism he wants to control that. & that is frustrating, so he will do little things like try to take credit for my creative musings & we get into big arguements about whose idea it was. He works really hard, I mean it is rediculous to me how hard he works & its getting worse as he gets older.

This stuborness is actually quite good because the way it works is that I desire a strong uniqueness within & surrounding myself. It would be nearly impossible for me to follow along with whatever is going on in the masses, in a defiant way I guess. But it doesnt look like that on the outside. I think most people believe Im like the 50′s housewife who obeys her husband and does all that other stuff no matter what. I stay at home, but my practices are actually incredibly deep no one would really know who I am on the inside. I know and see so much more than I like to admit to because I get caught up in “teachings” and then find that before i know it, the tide has once again gone out and new treasures are on their way.

Its endless, the joy of discovery sticks and there is a great attraction to that. Getting better at staying in source, distraction is an ever deepening opportunity/inquiry/challenge/surrender. When a man expresses greatness of truth and a talent for expressing that, it is difficult not to surrender all of your self to it, down to the smallest of parts. even if he is hard headed but if one cannot stand on their own then it could eventually have a sort of “culty” feel to it. I can see how that could be a conundrum. I dont even know, I mean then there are stalkers and all that. As my daughter would say…You’ve got yourself in a pickle. LOL

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By: Rick Brenner http://botstudent.net/2014/monogamy-polygamy-marriage#comment-38109 Tue, 08 Jul 2014 18:30:10 +0000 http://botstudent.net/?p=11204#comment-38109 Terry said: “looking for something from our mates that cannot be found there. I’m not certain what that ‘something’ is, but I suspect it is a ‘something’ which only God (of whatever flavor is assumed) can provide”

When I was a naive teen my emotional-sexual goal was to find a girlfriend who I could become “one” with. I didn’t know this was simply an unconscious drive to find the One True Reality (Divine, God, Brahma, Nirvana, or whatever name you like). We seek unity, not realizing we are already One.

PS – 57 year old male seeking 27 year old mistress LOL!

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By: Edu http://botstudent.net/2014/monogamy-polygamy-marriage#comment-38026 Wed, 04 Jun 2014 19:59:50 +0000 http://botstudent.net/?p=11204#comment-38026 About manipulation, I just get the sense that if I would be with someone with a poor sense of self knowledge and a romantic tendency to idealize the partner, that person would become, in a practical sense, an extension of my own will (or worse, someone else will). There would be very little of the actual other person in the relationship, which in my opinion, is the whole point of having a relationship with someone else. I think an important point of a love relationship is that it must be two-sided to be genuine.

I notice that it comes to a point when one seeks to build it’s own spiritual energy that a certain charismatic magnetism arises, that can unconciously atract other people, who are deficient themselves of their own energy. People throw energy at each other everytime, specially desires, and with our external oriented culture, it’s very hard to people to know what is their energy and what is others people energy. People “bewitch” each other all times.

I’m strong willed and hard headed, and can become very controlling even without noticing it, specially if the other person can’t stand on it’s own. This is just me, ok? Don’t take it as law please!

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By: BoT Student http://botstudent.net/2014/monogamy-polygamy-marriage#comment-38024 Tue, 03 Jun 2014 01:39:45 +0000 http://botstudent.net/?p=11204#comment-38024 Hi Christina,

Well to be honest I don’t have any experience with “negative occult” sex practices. But some people say that when two people have casual sex (or to take it a step further, let’s say abusive sex such as incest), it’s possible for one of them to manipulate the other one. The idea is that sex without love creates possibilities for manipulation, even a kind of “mind control.” One person could be innocent and naive (or desperate), and the other person could be looking to tie the other person on a string.

Thankfully I have no experience with that.

There’s a video here of a woman talking about how a man can manipulate women via sex, but I’m sure this kind of psychological manipulation can be done just as easily the other way around. Also incest survivors, pedophilia survivors, homosexual rape survivors and so on – you can find stories from them as well.

I don’t agree exactly with everything Alexyss says in that video, but I love her way of speaking. She reminds me of some folks I went to high school with. lol. Anyway she says “don’t let every man hit the bottom of your ___”. And that was the point I was trying to make. There is a necessary openness and vulnerability and letting down defenses in sex, and it seems unwise to do that with someone you don’t trust, simply out of loneliness or addictive habits and so on.

. . .

Regarding communities supporting marriage… well, part of the idea for me is that when you have friends who support your spirituality, who support you to make good decisions, and who provide human contact on a regular basis, this can help take pressure off of a marriage, take away some of the neediness that we might otherwise naturally feel.

Imagine being in a spiritual community of happily married couples who all share a commitment to God, and also some folks in the community who are single but who have a greater focus in their life than just getting laid – until the right person comes along.

Then imagine being surrounded by a different set of people, say, in Los Angeles, who want to try to seduce you or your husband, or who constantly encourage you to imitate their own selfish behaviors, who have no focus in their life other than money and status and drugs, etc.

The two situations are worlds apart.

As it says in 1 Corinthians: “Be not deceived: Bad company corrupts good character.”

Here’s another couple sentences from the essay above:

Only the holy community… can properly regard and accomodate true marriage. Therefore, each man and woman should be awakened by Divine instruction and then marry in the eyes of others of like mind and intent.

This initially sounds a bit “stuffy” to me, but on the other hand I can imagine it would be very helpful to participate in such a community, and having had some experience of that in the past, I did find it helpful to my relationship. Very helpful.

Otherwise, with just television programming, economic recessions, one another and nothing else to support it, a marriage can be really hard at times. The idea of the community is that it can provide a “buffer”. Almost a “sanctuary”, a reprieve from worldly values and messages. Not a utopia by any means, but a support.

For me, the people I meet on this blog are almost a kind of community which I find supportive. And this is just a taste of what is possible, maybe.

Who knows, maybe with the world in as dire straights as it is, more people will wake up and give one another the emotional support to choose a different way of living than the one propagandized on television…

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By: Christina http://botstudent.net/2014/monogamy-polygamy-marriage#comment-38023 Tue, 03 Jun 2014 00:37:56 +0000 http://botstudent.net/?p=11204#comment-38023 BoT
Im confused. What do you mean about the cult sex without people being aware? & also, about communities supporting a marriage and seeking to receive what what it is lacking from it…

Edu~ Nice distinction about animals & people, as a woman intimately connected with the earth, I get that. I burn allot of bridges, mostly in simple dogmatic fashion…

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By: BoT Student http://botstudent.net/2014/monogamy-polygamy-marriage#comment-38022 Mon, 02 Jun 2014 19:53:35 +0000 http://botstudent.net/?p=11204#comment-38022 Yes, “love” is easy for everyone to talk about, even in fluffy platitudes on Facebook.

But when we start talking about stuff like fidelity or commitment then all of a sudden it gets a whole lot more “real”, and not everyone is sure we are still on board with it. lol.

Thank you for sharing, Edu.

Yeah, I know what you mean about not wanting to hurt people. Some people say sex creates a literal energetic connection between two people that binds them together, even long afterwards, and the limitations, the karmas, the illusions, and the emotional and mental challenges of one person flow right into the other person. This might be acceptable, even ideal, in a committed relationship, where we willingly take on the other person, for better or worse.

But such “soul ties” might be less welcome in the case of casual sex, which pretends that such profound connections do not occur, and that there are no spiritual realities or repercussions to take into account.

“…and they two shall be one flesh” – Ephesians 5:31

Also, in the absence of love and commitment, I think it’s possible for one person to manipulate and control another person through occult sexual means, perhaps even without consciously realizing it.

Wow… so different from what I was taught on tv.

P.S. Maybe you could ask one of your lady friends to post a comment here, so we can hear from her perspective? :) Always nice to hear a variety of responses…

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By: Edu http://botstudent.net/2014/monogamy-polygamy-marriage#comment-38021 Mon, 02 Jun 2014 05:01:17 +0000 http://botstudent.net/?p=11204#comment-38021 I think that much of todays frustrations about relationships comes from the confusion bettween lust and love. One is animal. The other is divine. But with today’s so scientific society, the divine is gone, and all that is left is a blur of emotions, sensations and social programing that we call love. University professors will say that eating chocolate fires the same neurotransmissors in our brain that love does. The result I see is that young people no longer know what the heck is love. As you perfectly put, they think Idolizing the partner is love. And notice how love is mostly protrayed in mass media: It’s Painfull! People think they must suffer in love, they must give up of themselves in passion and constrict each other in petty whims, without ever making effort to improve themselves as human beings. No wonder why man and women don’t understand each other, as their natures are naturally different when they behave like animals.

Lust is like a self-seeking, self consuming black hole, always looking for the ultimate experience and yet never finding it, because it’s never there. It makes terrible ideas look great, and people to become egotists, narcisists or to become dependents with poor self steem. It leaves one empty and always wanting for more. This is what happens, in my view, when sex is completely divorced from love, as it’s being seem as fashionable today.

Love on the other hand is about building durable bridges among people, about learning to be tolerant and caring, and seeking shared spiritual growth. Perhaps something one step above of the sense of comunity? In my view I think that when “holy texts” talk about “fornication” as sinful, I think that what they mean is simply sex outside the spiritual commitment of love, and not sex otuside and dead social contract called marriage. Perhaps the sacred scriptures are meant to read INTELIGENTLY, and not in a dogmatic simple minded fashion.

I think this makes me to think a lot about whom I relate with because most girls simply can’t understand relationship in this context. I see the cute girl, and think: “I could date her”. But them a feeling of emptyness hits me as I see that our perspectives of relationship are so different. It’s just lust and wrong expectations and manipulation. DARN! In the end she is simply not someone I would commit with. I don’t wan’t to pretend that I’m some sort of spiritual eminence but I find myself over and over to be in complete opposition to the society I currenly live. It bothers me to death. It’s weird because there is a sort social of expectation that ones needs to fuck at every possible opportunity until one is seriously engaged. If you don’t, you’re sick, a weirdo, a dogmatic religious, or a gay (no way!)! I just find that if I related with people for sensuous gratification only, it would be unfair, dishonest and ultimately painfull for both. I just don’t want to hurt others for my own gratification.

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By: BoT Student http://botstudent.net/2014/monogamy-polygamy-marriage#comment-38020 Sun, 01 Jun 2014 14:40:42 +0000 http://botstudent.net/?p=11204#comment-38020 I love the imagery you shared about the apple trees.

The timing of the fruit cannot be predicted…

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By: BoT Student http://botstudent.net/2014/monogamy-polygamy-marriage#comment-38019 Sun, 01 Jun 2014 13:40:53 +0000 http://botstudent.net/?p=11204#comment-38019 Hi Terry,

Thank you for sharing, sir.

I think the reason television is so popular these days is that as human beings we are desperate to feel connected to other human beings, we need to hear stories, we need examples to learn from. We need a sense of community, other human beings who are available to learn from their experiences.

While television these days does a better job emulating that and pretending to be that, compared to 30 years ago, it’s still a manufactured thing, and the stories on television somehow don’t have enough *reality* in them to do us much good, I think. It just becomes an addiction, whereby we keep hoping we’ll get the satisfaction we crave if we tune back in next week.

It reminds me of something I posted years ago on this blog about community and our craving for it – I think it was the very first thing I posted on this blog:

We yearn, that is, for community, for that network of human associations which enlarges the individual’s life. This hunger runs so deep that even the appearance of community will feed it… (link)

Part of the essay I quoted above from “Love of the Two-Armed Form” actually mentions the importance of true community in the context of marriage. I left that part out to keep things simple, but it said that a true marriage is not something that can be given to us by the State, but is best served in the context of a true community of devotees of the Living God. In that context, true marriage can be both valued and supported – and perhaps community can provide us with many of the things we otherwise seek to get from marriage. Whereas a government marriage license by itself doesn’t have the power to do all that.

What I’m trying to say is thank you for sharing your experiences Terry. The comments people post on this blog help me to see that 75% of the value of this blog is just being a place for people to come together to learn from one another.

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